tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post1759459560533079038..comments2023-10-30T11:46:43.284+00:00Comments on Musings of the Cosmic Calamari: It's Basically Bird RacismSpaceSquidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09760939592584995876noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post-9962465139871762672014-08-10T22:40:55.431+01:002014-08-10T22:40:55.431+01:00I don't believe we're given any particular...I don't believe we're given any particular details on exactly how the Eagle - Fell Beast matchup works. Also, we don't know how many Fell Beasts there are (I can't remember if we see all nine Nazgul flying at once in the book, and we don't know whether Legolas actually killed the one he shot) nor whether they are operational without riders. Further, we know that Sauron + Lackeys has access to lots of "sorcery" but we never find out what they can do. Boromir suggests that Sauron can control the weather of Mordor, which would inconvenience flying attackers.<br /><br />Another problem for eagle-assault is that we don't know how far Eagles can carry people. We know that Gwaihir carries Gandalf from Durin's Tower to Caras Galadhon, which is a tidy way (as the Gaffer might say) but who knows whether he had to rest at all on the way. Our best guess comes from Gandalf's escape from Isengard, where he can't be carried all the way to the Shire an so goes for a horse instead. This suggests that Eagle-assaults aren't a particularly viable long-distance operation.<br /><br />Stronger potential uses for the Eagles would be for short-distance transport (for instance could they get the party over the mountains?) and for launching decoy flights and airdrops to confuse the many spies of the Enemy. Indeed, we don't see any distraction operations from Team Rivendell at all, which given how paranoid they are about the Fellowship being discovered seems a bit odd. Still, there's also no suggestion that the Eagles are actually up for this anyway. Maybe they hadn't decided whether to get involved, or maybe Team Rivendell didn't trust them enough.BigHeadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post-47676371346685255782014-08-10T18:12:29.669+01:002014-08-10T18:12:29.669+01:00Also an entirely fair point; it's just always ...Also an entirely fair point; it's just always assumed that the Nazgul couldn't stop the one eagle with the ring in aerial combat. And like I've said, Mordor won't have lacked for AA options. Much as I love the Gandalf theory, I can't deny getting a chuckle out of the idea that a swarm of giant eagle flight over dozens of leagues of enemy territory would constitute a surprise attack.SpaceSquidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760939592584995876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post-71625599216995765162014-08-10T13:27:18.478+01:002014-08-10T13:27:18.478+01:00But the eagles where only able to fly to Mount Doo...But the eagles where only able to fly to Mount Doom after Sauron was defeated and the air wasn't full of Nazgul on wings.<br /><br />darkmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post-17085686001376572732014-08-09T16:01:39.467+01:002014-08-09T16:01:39.467+01:00I think that's an entirely fair point insofar ...I think that's an entirely fair point insofar as the narrative should explicitly state why the eagles can't be used, though I confess I can't remember if the eagle airlift takes place in the books. I don't really have a problem with handwaving (or I guess wingwaving) away how Frodo and Sam escape from Mount Doom since the point of the story was so explicitly to get them there, indeed there are absolutely hundreds of examples of stories that get from the finale to the epilogue by just having the hero pass out and come to having been rescued; the point is that they did their job, not how they got a ride home afterwards.<br /><br />But yeah, I can see the point. My objection is that it's generally not framed as "there should obviously have been a reason given for not doing X" but as "X was clearly a great idea and there's no reason it wouldn't have worked". The first is entirely reasonable, the latter is just failing to think the actual logic of the story through.SpaceSquidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760939592584995876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post-20128245037796949902014-08-09T15:16:59.370+01:002014-08-09T15:16:59.370+01:00I think the reason why everyone likes to beat on t...I think the reason why everyone likes to beat on the fact that the Eagles are such an obvious easy solution, is simply the fact they were utilised in the book itself as a remarkably convenient way to ensure Frodo and Sam get out alive without any real bother. Tolkien can't have his cake and eat it, if he utilises a relatively lazy device for that (one which has already been used earlier in the book as well) then he can expect some flak in the form of "well if they an rescue Frodo they could survey have carried them their in the first place".Dannoreply@blogger.com