tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post7939901084442390305..comments2023-10-30T11:46:43.284+00:00Comments on Musings of the Cosmic Calamari: Adventures With Jesus #1SpaceSquidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09760939592584995876noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post-77124874810642367152009-02-18T22:18:00.000+00:002009-02-18T22:18:00.000+00:00I won't deny that I have had discussions with Chri...I won't deny that I have had discussions with Christians who combined total cluelessness with agressive condemnation, but none of them have happened over this last week.<BR/><BR/>And yes, I'm sure a trained theologian would probably be a more useful conversational partner than a some random from DICCU, but I think it would be a disservice to this week's speakers to not recognise they've been chosen for more than the fact that they're committed.<BR/><BR/>The homogeneity point was raised in the talk this post discusses (still my favourite of those I've been to thus far). As you say, it's not clear how relevant that fact is, but it certainly seems to be the case.SpaceSquidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760939592584995876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post-28246223261755912632009-02-18T16:40:00.000+00:002009-02-18T16:40:00.000+00:00I generally find that encounters with ridiculous e...I generally find that encounters with ridiculous evangelical groups such as DICCU inflames my Atheism for all the wrong reasons. I find my emotional reaction to their objectionable doctrine/fanaticism/disrespect overrides my more cerebral and logical beliefs. Which to be honest is probably the problem they have with me too.<BR/><BR/>I have found more interesting conversations on beliefs with trained theologians/books rather than aggressive Christians who have never looked beyond the dogma they have adopted and without question or further research tout.<BR/><BR/>I recently read that the bible is actually very well preserved. Translational misunderstandings not withstanding, as one of the most printed, copied and read books even the early versions show remarkable homogeneity. <BR/><BR/>However, who decided what versions survived (and keeps them in their lovely vault) and the nature and absence of 'original works' is very open to question.Chemiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05608504177967398816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post-30171596172818927902009-02-18T11:44:00.000+00:002009-02-18T11:44:00.000+00:00I guess I should have included an extra step. As f...I guess I should have included an extra step. As far as I can see, translation is often an imperfect process, partially due to human error, but also because, like so many other things, our capacity to translate Language X improves with time as more academic thinking is applied, new sources are uncovered, new anthropological theories, what have you, and so early translations may not be the most accurate <I>despite</I> being closest to the source. <BR/><BR/>Thus the veracity of <I>any</I> translation should be in doubt absent rigorous re-analysis, which in this case the Church would naturally tend to resist.<BR/><BR/>As to what is right <I>staying</I> right, that is liable to be tru (though one would hope that regular re-evaluation would fix far more than it broke), but that isn't the point. Just because re-evaluation might lead to errors doesn't mean the lack of that evaluation hasn't resulted in errors, too.<BR/><BR/>Lastly, on the subject of DICCU, I'm pretty sure Kim is right on this one, a woman cannot become President. There is also talk of various pledges that you are required to sign to enter the various levels of the society. At the very least, there's a reason they call themselves a Union rather than a Society, in that they don't meet the criteria necessary to be considered a Durham University Society. It's all very tedious, really.SpaceSquidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760939592584995876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post-13325527240641937002009-02-18T11:24:00.000+00:002009-02-18T11:24:00.000+00:00I'm liking this series so far; most of this articl...I'm liking this series so far; most of this article I pretty much agree with. I do think there's a slight problem with one of your minor arguments though: in your first para regarding points 1 and 2 you say that one of the reasons why we should question the veracity of translations is that, basically, religious doctrinal thinking is very hard to overturn. I don't really think that logically follows; ok, so that might be a reason why mistakes might <I>remain</I> in translations for a lengthy period of time once established, but it doesn't necessitate the mistakes occurring in the first place<BR/><BR/>Your point about the conservative nature of religious organisation actually suggests more strongly that, although some mistakes may be made originally, that which is correct <I>stays</I> correct over the centuries, or at least has a better chance at doing so.<BR/><BR/>Note that I am not defending the accuracy of religious text translation, quite obviously the Bible is full of mistranslations, just that your point isn't really a proper reason to doubt their veracity. The main reasons to do so, I imagine, lie in deep and painstaking scholarship.<BR/><BR/>But anyway, that was just a minor point of yours, and, as you say, parenthetical to the main thrust of your argument.<BR/><BR/>As for DICCU, I've had a scan of their Constitution and I saw no mention of how they vote for the Exec, nor any explicit exclusion of female presidents. Of course, that just means that if the latter <I>is</I> going on it's going on illegally according to their statutes, which is arguably more worrying...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post-64605400453217771152009-02-17T23:52:00.000+00:002009-02-17T23:52:00.000+00:00There were questions. Mine wasn't asked (they wer...There were questions. Mine wasn't asked (they were written down), but I did corner the guy at the end and directly put it to him that you can't criticise the wisdom of a plan without knowing the intent of it, which he conceded.<BR/><BR/>I don't think having me turn up <I>anywhere</I> would constitute a brushing of respectability. And of course my problems with DICCU as a society are an entirely separate issue to my desire to understand my own atheism better. And sometimes the only way to do that is to listen to the religious, and work out which bits are the most obviously wrong.SpaceSquidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760939592584995876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4505812700967330296.post-67067022142764274842009-02-17T15:39:00.000+00:002009-02-17T15:39:00.000+00:00Did they let you ask questions at the end? Persona...Did they let you ask questions at the end? <BR/><BR/>Personally I would never give the DICCU a brushing of respectability by having anything to do with them or their week of disrespect. Although if you get bored of telling them the usually rebuffed statements of reasonable thought, try questioning their society. Why are 1 and 3 of their society aims almost the same? Why don't they vote for their exec? (Last time I heard they just prayed about it). And are they really OK with the fact that a man is always the president and a woman always the secretary? (Women aren't allowed to be president) <BR/><BR/>*re-living the glory days of gnashing teeth in the pub about the DICCU*Chemiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05608504177967398816noreply@blogger.com